The Real Business of Personal Training

How do you become a successful personal trainer, and how much can you really make? In this episode, I sit down with personal trainer, licensed massage therapist, and martial arts expert Geoff Staz to explore the realities of building a career in fitness. We discuss personal trainer salary, certifications, getting clients, opening a fitness business, and why long-term success depends more on habits, nutrition, and self-trust than quick fixes. Whether you're considering a career in personal training or simply want practical fitness advice, this conversation offers an honest look at the profession and the business behind it.

Geoff's website: https://www.stazfit.com/

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Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation

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About the host: Mirav Ozeri has always been drawn to storytelling and journalism, especially the stories of everyday people.

In the 90’s She founded her own video production company, producing, directing, and editing documentaries and videos for political organizations which led to a 17-year career at CBS News, where she served as a producer/editor, helped launch CBS MarketWatch, and later worked as a senior editor and segment producer until the program was acquired by Dow Jones.

During her years at CBS, Mirav developed and produced a television pilot built around a simple idea: giving people an honest look at what different careers are really like. Although the pilot was never picked up, the concept stayed with her. Years later, she brought it back as How Much Can I Make?, a podcast that explores real jobs, real stories, and the many paths people take to build a career.

Transcript

Why Training Gets Boring

SPEAKER_00 0:01

If you train to get big muscles, you're gonna be bored in a year. If you train to be better and know yourself better, you'll train your whole life.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 0:09

Hi, happy to have you back on How Much Can I Make, the podcast about jobs and careers. I'm your host, Miravozeri. My guest today, Jeff Stas, has more than 12,000 personal training sessions under his belt. He knows fitness inside and out. He's a former elite equinox trainer, licensed massage therapist, and most importantly, a goju karate expert. I actually take his bootcamp classes and I love them. They're really great. But what really impressed me wasn't just the workout, it was his deep understanding and knowledge of the body. So I asked him to come on the show, not only to talk about getting fit, but also about building a successful career and a business as a personal trainer. So let's turn to my conversation with Jeff. First of all, thank you very much for doing it. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Thank you for inviting me.

Martial Arts And Self-Knowledge

Mirav Ozeri - Host 1:05

So I have a lot of questions. So why won't we start by telling us how did you become a personal trainer?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Okay, good question. So I started off from four or five years old. My mother threw me out of the house and put me on a judo mat. I was too much energy. So since four or five years old, I've always had a close connection with physicality and training and martial arts. And where the base of my philosophy for training is in martial arts, but that's another point. And then I just stuck with throughout my life training as a way of life, and then I started doing martial arts full-time and professionally. And at one point I decided to go traveling. I ended up in New York. Personal training was just a good fit, and at that point I was attracted by the financial opportunities for something that I really love doing.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 1:50

So you said something interesting that you started with martial arts and that really had your direction. How? How come? Why?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

When you do martial arts, it's an evolved state of being. Personal training is not just personal training. Personal training is a quest for self-knowledge. So when you're on the mat and it's in the middle of boot camp, and that asshole trainer Jeff says do ten more push-ups and you're tired, you have to look inside to get through the ten push-ups. And that is a form of meditation.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 2:19

You trained people at the in the equinox in New York. I did. Like 12,000 session you already had.

Self-Trust And Opening A Studio

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yes, I did.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 2:25

And then you had your own studio.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yes.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 2:28

So at what point did you decide and why to open your own studio?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

That's a good question. I think about that all the time. I think that when you decide to open your own studio, unless you have self-trust, you don't ever think about opening your studio. And self-trust comes from a long journey of getting rid of your bullshit.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 2:46

So wait, if you have self-trust, you will not open a studio?

SPEAKER_00 2:49

No, yes, you will open a studio. You will open a studio. Maybe if you have self-trust. If you don't have self-trust, you won't do it. Okay. If you do have self-trust, you may do it if you're crazy enough.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 2:58

What are the things that most people don't know about owning your own studio?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

On the surface, it sounds, oh, I train somebody for $150 an hour, and people go, oh wow, so you do six a day and it amounts to X. But the reality is that you're always thinking about new clients. People come and go very fast. It can be a very you're putting out a lot of energy. If you want to be a successful trainer, you have to have a real connection. That's what makes the business good.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 3:22

How did you get your clients? Did you just advertise?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

I have a there's a combination of my martial arts background, lends a air of authenticity to what I do. I have a full contact karate background and people respect that. So when I talk about grit and getting through a set, I've been there myself in the trenches, and I think that's

Credibility Through Skill And Anatomy

SPEAKER_00 3:41

important.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 3:41

That leads me to my other question because you know every damn muscle and kinks in the body. Did you learn anatomy? What did what was your studying and schooling like?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

First of all, the karate knowledge is very important. I go to Japan every two years for karate training with 20 people, fourth down and above. Why is the karate important? Because it teaches you a holistic approach to a healthy lifestyle. And personal training these days is not just about the gym, it's your attitude to life and wellness. The whole concept of wellness has evolved and changed. Wellness in the 80s used to mean having a big chest and big biceps and going curls for the girls and all that stuff. And nowadays it's evolved thankfully into something more about a holistic approach to being at one with yourself.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 4:26

So where did you get that knowledge? No, it can't be just from karate.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

No. There's three different tiers. Karate, I think there was the spiritual and knowledge of pain. And then I also went to massage school, the Swedish Institute. And that taught me the muscle attachments, where muscles start and where muscles begin. Muscles are like strings in a puppet, they just open and close joints. So you have to have a really good knowledge of muscle attachment and origin in order to be a good trainer. That's why I went to massage school to be a better trainer.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 4:57

So you're trained in massage in karate.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

And then, of course, in personal training science, the personal training degree.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 5:04

Oh, there is actual degree.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Well, there's degrees. I didn't get a degree, but I got there's courses, federal courses, and I take one every one or two years just to keep up.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 5:13

Did it happen that you had a customer that got injured in the session?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Thank God, not yet, but I'm fully aware that it can happen at any time. It takes one second. It's like when you have a baby. You too you do looking at the baby and then you turn to answer the phone and the baby falls off the bed. It can happen. So I'm very thankful every day doesn't happen. I'm never in an automatic zone like that. I always

Safety Mindset And Rehab Training

SPEAKER_00 5:33

looking.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 5:33

Yes, I can attest to that. You trained a lot of people. Can you tell immediately if somebody's gonna stick to it or not?

SPEAKER_00 5:41

When someone comes in to me and says, I want to change my life and I know what I have to do, usually you get a sense of okay, this person's had enough of feeling like this. They're gonna stick to it. And usually I can tell this guy's gonna be gone in ten days. But sometimes I get surprised. But usually there's a sense of someone's here for real, they're serious about it. They're not here to look good, they're here to be better.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:05

But if somebody comes to you and they are unable to do some of the exercise you do, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

It's no such thing.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:12

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

No such thing. If somebody wants to do a squat, I'm too old or I'm too sick or my knees hurt. If you're 75 years old and you had knee surgery and you want to do a squat, I'll let you hold on to a pole and slowly crawl down with your hands and up again. Guess what? That's still a squat because there's an extension in the hip, knee, and the ankle. And if you're 22 years old and you're a track athlete, guess what? I'm giving you 100 kgs and are you gonna do a squat?

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:38

Do people come to you for rehabilitation after?

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yes, a lot. Yeah, that's the most interesting form of training. It's easy to take someone as healthy and fit and they hey they want to get a better-looking legs or whatever. That's easy, that's superficial stuff. But people who are here for rehabilitation and improving their health, that's a lot more

Sticking With It For Real

SPEAKER_00 6:58

interesting.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:58

What's the secret to sticking out with a workout routine?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Surrounding yourself with the right people.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 7:03

Oh, I didn't expect you to say that. People that actually do work out with you, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

100%. Find someone who's gonna train with you. It's very hard to find. It's a choice. I think the most important part is and also, sorry, I forgot to say, the most important part about sticking to your plan is making it realistic. I'm gonna train, I work hard, I have two kids, I'm gonna train twice a week. Somehow I'm gonna get two times 45 minutes in. Make the goals realistic.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 7:29

Is it important what time of the day you work out?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

No, it's not important what time of day. There are certain optimal hours, but that's if you're if you are doing an Olympic performance, you can worry about that. But it's more about being answerable to yourself. Find time that you can stick to. If you say, That's it, I'm gonna train seven days a week, I'm gonna stop drinking, that's not realistic. You're gonna last me, I would live if I said I'm not gonna drink beer, I'm done in 24

The Trainer Career Path In Gyms

SPEAKER_00 7:54

hours.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 7:54

If somebody wants to become a personal trainer, yeah, what path would you recommend for them?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I would recommend 100% absolutely that they spend a year at a big company like Equinox. Used to be, I'm not sure where they are right now in terms of quality. They used to be Equinox used to be the best personal training experience possible because it teaches you you can be a really good personal trainer, but you do have to know how to navigate the business of personal training. You have to get a sense of flow and ebb and the timing and what times people like to train and your expectations as a trainer. And I think you learn that in a group environment where you are working on a as a team member. And I think definitely go to a big gym environment for at least a year, New York City. If you can train a if you can survive in a club in New York City, you can survive anywhere. So when you work for a club, you work on a salary. You work on a salary if you make the certain tiers of sales. It's a sales job. What do you mean it's a sales job? It's a sales job. They you they put you on the floor, they say, okay, you want to make money, go make money. But every time you get a client, they take the lion's share of it, right? So this is where trainers get stuck. You work at Equinox, it's a nice club. You have this illusion of living in a nice club and it's a trap because you make enough money to survive, but you don't make enough money to ever think of opening your own space. Very few trainers take that lion's leap into opening their own space. It's scary.

Pricing Personal Training And Priorities

Mirav Ozeri - Host 9:16

So, what is the going rate today for a personal trainer? I saw anything between 60 to 75 an hour.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

If you're a beginner, yeah.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 9:24

If you're a beginner? Yeah. What is the range that uh you can charge for personal training?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Depending on your skill level and your reputation, you can charge anything from sixties and the low end to 180 per hour.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 9:37

Yeah. You have to be rich to pay 180 an hour.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

You have to be rich to pay 180 an hour. But people I don't know if this is relevant, but people go out and they spend $250 without thinking about it for dinner.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 9:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

And they do it three times a week.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 9:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

And now they oh, training, oh, $100 an hour. Ah, I can't. So it's all about your priorities. Training is affordable if you make it affordable.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 10:01

So a new personal trainer in a club, what could they make?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

If you work hard, if you're doing eight sessions a day, you can make about fifty to sixty thousand dollars as a beginner.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 10:11

An experienced one?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Two hundred thousand. Really? Yes, but it's blood money. You gotta work, you gotta grind, and you gotta keep on focusing on new people. You gotta keep on, you get ten clients, and you already that's in the bank, you're already looking at the next ten. Because things change fast. People get bored of training, people get bored of you as a trainer, people get taken away by trends. Very few clientele understand the value of authentic training instead of fancy training, trendy training. If you train to get big muscles, you're gonna be bored in a year. If you train to be better and know yourself better, you'll train your whole life. Does that make sense?

Mirav Ozeri - Host 10:48

What do you mean by know yourself better? You know your physical limitation or no No, you push yourself through a hard time. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Every time you do that, I think it's growth

Bone Density And Training For Aging

SPEAKER_00 10:59

there.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 10:59

Talking about trend, what is the trend in workout today?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Bone density.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 11:04

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Bone density, people who are thinking about getting older and working for increased bone density because that's what happens when you get older. You lose bone density. When you lose bone density, you fall and your quality of life goes down. That kind of training is becoming a mainstream conversation. In fact, it's on every table, it's at every dinner table.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 11:25

So why don't you have a marketing for older people for bone density only?

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Because bone density training is one aspect I would say that, and also if you're training for, I would rather say train for overall health. And even your boot camp, I mentioned bone density training.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 11:41

Yeah, you do some exercises that are good for bone density.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

But the truth is that any kind of weight training, lunging and squatting, is all good for bone density.

Nutrition And Lifestyle Outside The Gym

Mirav Ozeri - Host 11:49

Looking ahead five, ten years from now, what skills you think will be most important for a trainer to stay in business and be booked?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Extremely good knowledge of muscle attachments and origin, good understanding, an integrative approach that teaches clients what to do outside of the gym as well as inside the gym. Oh, like what? Diet choices, habits in the kitchen.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 12:14

Do you teach those things or you just mentioned?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I did a two-year course on nutrition, what was it called? Precision nutrition by John Barotti, very good course. And the truth is that becoming healthy is not doesn't happen in the gym. Becoming healthy happens in the kitchen. If you eat in the gym four four times a week, that's a lot, but it's only four percent of the week. What are you doing the other 96? So you cannot out-train a bad lifestyle. The lifestyle has to be good. Training is just the cherry on the top.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 12:40

What is the right amount to train per week?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I think you should do some kind of training every day. Not hard. Training should not be intense every day, but you should certainly be walking or swimming or hiking or doing something every day for half an hour, 40 minutes. I would say that intense training should be done twice a week. Your training shouldn't be it shouldn't kill you. It should be a pleasant therapeutic experience.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 13:01

You work out every day?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

I do. Wow. But I'm a little psychotic.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 13:04

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

I work out every day and I try and I will do hard day, mobility day, and then cardio day. So I'll work out intensely three times a week, and the rest is movement and walking and stuff like that. Walking and mobility and stretching.

Training Frequency And Common Mistakes

Mirav Ozeri - Host 13:19

Yeah. What is the one exercise that most people do wrong?

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Push-up. Push-up is not an arm and chest exercise. A push-up is learning how to put weight in the feet and the hands, and you are carrying your core, which is from below the rib cage to mid-thigh. A push-up is not a chest exercise. A push-up is like a crane. You have four legs lowering and raising the life essence, which is your belly button. That's why what did I say at training? Everything is an ab exercise. The ab is the queen bee. And the arms and the legs are the drone bees. What do they have to do to work to carry the abs? When you're doing a walking lunge, you're not walking, you are carrying

Fueling Workouts And Muscle Types

SPEAKER_00 13:58

your belly button.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 13:58

And you always say to eat something before you come for a training session.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yes. When you train, there is a reserve of energy which you get from carbs, good carbs, oatmeal, whole wheat toast with peanut butter, banana. Because when your sugar level drops too much, you're not capable of doing a good workout. So you want to you want to just stabilize the insulin levels in your blood. Because if the insulin drops because there's no food, you become useless in the gym floor. And you'll see it a lot. And this is particularly with high-intensity exercises. Don't come in fasted because that high intensity, fast twitch demands sugar for energy. The low stuff that you can get energy from the lungs, an hour rowing, or an hour walking on the tremendous or an hour slow, steady swimming, you can do that fasted. Because that's not fast twitch muscle, that's slow twitch muscle. And that's another whole conversation.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 14:48

Yeah, I didn't know there's a difference between low twitch and fast twitch.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Fast twitch, yeah.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 14:52

What is a fast twitch?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Fast twitch is a highly explosive muscle contraction. And a slow twitch is a more regular, steady, sub-maximal force. So if you look at Hussein Bolt, his fast twitch muscle is very good. That's how he sprints. If you look at a marathon runner, marathon runners to me are freak athletes. I couldn't run 20 mm miles, but I could go full contact in a karate round or kettlebell swings or so it's two different animals, two different worlds. But when you're on an intense thing like boot camp, you need fuel before

Stop Wasting Money On Supplements

SPEAKER_00 15:23

you work.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 15:23

What's the one thing people really waste their money when it comes to fitness?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Supplements.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 15:28

Oh really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

What do you mean? BCAAs and branch chain amino acids and they're called supplements for a reason because good food is king. If you need good protein, eat good animal lean protein. But I think a lot of people spend time and money, a whole lot of money. I'm gonna take my protein or I'm gonna take my BCAAs because really you don't want to be in the gym working, and that's the truth of it. Eat good food, train.

Longevity As A Trainer And Next Steps

Mirav Ozeri - Host 15:53

How long, as far as age, you think you can continue to be a trainer?

SPEAKER_00 15:57

The kind of training that I do probably oh that's a difficult question because I think it's important to be on the floor and to be able to demonstrate movement. So I think there's a certain ceiling to that. I don't want to put a number to it, but I think when I start feeling tired of the physicality, I will morph into full-time massage.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 16:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Which is a little less jarring on the joints, and I think I enjoy that too a lot actually. So I might go for more full-time into massage.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 16:23

Where would you like your professional life to be in the next five years?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

I would like to have an investor for a beautiful facility, and I will be doing exactly the same that I'm doing now.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 16:33

You want to open another facility?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

I want to open a better facility.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 16:36

When you say better facility, what will be there that you don't have right now, for example? You have all the machines?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Steam rooms, just a beautiful space.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 16:45

Steam room and saunas, by the way, are important for workout?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah, they're good, yeah. When you open the veins up, it's good for circuit for circulation in the fingertips and the toes and relaxes you. There's also maybe I'll probably do an ice plunge too if I had the money. That vasoconstriction and sauna, ice plunge, sauna, ice plunge. Wow. I asked myself if I had $10 million right now, the only thing I would change is maybe my schedule a little bit. I'd get up at 6 instead of five, and I'd do, I would probably take more time off to walk my dog in the mountain. But that's it.

Final Takeaways And Where To Go

Mirav Ozeri - Host 17:16

Alright. Thank you so much. That was very interesting. Hopefully, people will take your advice to have to work out. Yeah, you have to work out. That's it for today. Thanks for listening. If you're curious about careers that you never thought of, head over to How Much Can I Make That Info and check out our unique and unusual jobs category. You'll find real conversation with people in fascinating careers sharing what they do, how they got started, and what they actually earn. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next week.