Divorce Mediation vs Court: Costs, Custody & Career Earnings Explained

Mediator

In this episode, discover what a family mediator really does and how much you can earn in this career. New York family mediator Alison Block Gerson shares how divorce mediation offers a faster, less expensive alternative to traditional court litigation, reducing conflict and helping couples reach workable agreements. 

We dive into detailed comparisons between mediation and court processes, including training requirements, private mediation rates in New York, and court-referred mediation pay. Explore real cases that reveal why divorce litigation costs can escalate to six figures, especially with complex assets like cryptocurrency and forensic accounting involved. 

Whether you're considering a career in mediation, seeking job advice, or curious about career opportunities, this episode delivers valuable career insights and practical information about earnings and success factors. 

Tune in for essential job tips and insider perspectives on navigating the divorce mediation job market.

Connect with Alison

Website - https://www.familymediationmatters.com/

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alison-block-gerson-00536b5/

How Much Can I Make? Is nominated for 2026 Women in Podcasting Award!

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Visit howmuchcanimake.info

Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Because that is a lot of what parents fight about, is because the kids, ding ding, ding, I can say this to dad, and he'll do this for me, and I can do this to mom, and that causes the problem. So they constantly need to communicate on the side with each other.

What Mediation Is And Isn’t

Mirav Ozeri - Host 0:19

Welcome back to How Much Can I Make? I'm your host, Miravozere. Now, usually when we hear the word divorce, we think fight. But what if it doesn't have to be this way and look at it like a problem solving? I think today's guest is gonna show us just that. Alison Gerson is a family mediator who helps couples work through divorce, parents through problems with their children, and many other things. And all of this without going to war. I personally think it takes a real skill to get two angry people to sit down, talk, and actually agree on something. But that's exactly what Alison does. So let's find out how you turn conflict resolution into a career that pays. And by the way, just before we start, if you like the show or like any episode, please like, review, follow. It really helps the show. Thank you. So now let's turn to Alison. So Alison, thanks for coming on the show. You're welcome. Happy to be here. And let's start by telling us what is mediation and what kind of mediator are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

And I'm a family mediator, so I mediate families, mostly parents who have children in common, but I also mediate couples who are divorcing, sometimes with children, sometimes without children. And so mediating is talking to both parties, sometimes there's more than two parties, about what it is they want. And my role is as a neutral, impartial third party. I am not a judge, a lawyer, or a therapist, or I'm not acting as those things. And so I'm really there to facilitate a conversation between the parties, help them to understand what it is they each want, and help them have conversations about that. And it depends on the mediation, but typically there's an agreement that hopefully they will come to, but I believe that the conversation is the most important part.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 2:16

So a couple is about to get divorced and they decide instead of going to court, they're going to go to mediation and hopefully find a solution independently.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Right. There's something else besides just mediation or court. They can each get their own lawyers. The goal always is not to go to court, but to have two lawyers is still a litigious process because the two parties, the couple, don't typically talk to each other in that circumstance. They talk through their lawyers. And the lawyer's job is to get as much as they can, you know, for each of them. So court happens if they can't come to some agreement. So when couples go to court in a divorce, that's like that's like not a good thing. It is definitely the worst case scenario when you need a judge to make those decisions.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 3:01

Whatever they agree on the mediation, does that hold like a court ruling? Correct.

Agreements, Custody, And Support

SPEAKER_00 3:06

I am not a lawyer at all. And so when I do mediations, I do them with my with a partner who is an attorney. And you don't have to, but that's how I do it. And when they come to agreements in mediation, then those get written up into a separation agreement that is a legal document. The mediation goes through every issue that needs to be discussed in a divorce, which is asset division. That can be just assets, that can be your, I mean, that can be just money, it can be your house. And custody. Children. Let's say there's no children, it's asset division and support, whether one spouse gets support from the other. What used to be called alimony, it's called maintenance now. And if there are children, then it's custody and whoever doesn't have physical custody, it's their parenting time. It could be joint custody too. So you work out a parenting agreement and legal custody, which is about making decisions for the children, and then support for the children as well. So those are all the issues. So if you get to an agreement on all those issues, mediation's over. You've done it, you've gotten an agreement. They can hire an attorney to then draft up their separation agreement that gets submitted to the court. And then if they want to get a divorce, then it's just a matter of filing for a divorce. The separation agreement is the terms of the divorce.

Training

Mirav Ozeri - Host 4:22

Now you mentioned that you're not a lawyer, but what kind of certificate or study you had to do in order to be a mediator?

Balance of Power and Abusive Relationship

SPEAKER_00 4:30

There's a 42-hour training that you do. And I did this in 2007. It's a kind of like a basic mediation training. Everybody else was attorneys and therapists. And afterwards, I was like, I went up to the guys who ran it. I'm like, I can't hang up a shingle and become a divorce mediator. So they sent me to a community mediation center. So there are community mediation centers in each borough. In New York and Brooklyn, it's called the New York Peace Institute. And they have great trainings. So you would do trainings with them, and then you would do a like a mentorship and a and a not only the 40 or 42-hour training, you would do, you would get cases. So that's what I did. And I had a mentor and I started mediating landlord tenant cases. So you get your feet wet, you you mediate these cases with somebody watching me. And then I did another training that's called PINS, Parents in Need of Supervision. It's kind of the mediation I always wanted to do, which is parents and their teenage children, maybe if the kids are truant or on drugs or whatever and they need to rein them in. In a mediation, the couple has to have a balance of power, right? They do have to have a domestic violence training. One of them can't be the type of person that's strong arming the other one, that the other one is afraid of that one, and because then that person will give in. So we have to be able to spot domestic violence, or even if it's not physical domestic violence, some sort of harassment or intimidation. Sometimes we do mediations and you notice that that's the case. I had one that I noticed that was the case and we tried, but eventually we said, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to go to attorneys. Because it was not fair for one of the parties because the other one was abusive. Strong arming. Abusive, but smore, I would use the word for this particular case, strong arming. And the other party wasn't quite understanding what this party was doing and was gonna fall for it because that's how their relationship was. And we felt that that person needed an advocate.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:25

Can you give me the pros and cons for going to mediation rather than the court?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

So especially when there are children, because you are having a conversation with your ex-partner and delving into deeply why you want something. Like so it's part therapy and part legal? That's what some people feel. I mean, again, we're not therapists, but yeah, because they come in and they say, I have to have the house. I have the children, I want the I want to have the house, I need to have the house. So it's not just a matter of let's discuss the house. It's about what does the house mean to you? Why is that important to you? What will what will that give you? You know, and it's my kids' home. I want to be able to have a steady place for them, all these whatever it is. And these are people sometimes who have not had these conversations. They fight about X, Y, and Z, and they've never sat down and discussed why X is important to them. So there's all reasons underneath, and then the person who's listening to it starts to understand and feel for that person. So we do a lot of therapy stuff, which is reflecting and looping so that the other person can hear it again. And then the court, it's just litigious, and you know, the attorney is trying to get as much as they can get for their person. We always say that in mediation, we're gonna help you pay for your child's college. In litigation, you're gonna help pay for the attorney's kids to go to college.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 7:50

That's a good line. Yeah. Can you walk me through? Let's say a couple comes into the room. How does it work? What happens in the room when it when a couple comes in?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Unfortunately, we don't walk into a room anymore. We walk into Zoom, which just kind of, you know, we used to do it in person and now it's just so much easier. And we start with telling them about mediation. It's a confidential process and it's their process, and we're not here to make any decisions. So we explain the process of mediation again. And then we start with we want each of you to tell us what it is that is important to you. What is it that you're looking for? Sometimes it's financial stability, sometimes it's their kids, it's always about the kids. I keep those notes at the top of my notes and I constantly reflect back and make sure that that we're holding them to that.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 8:36

Does it happen that the mediation fails?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Yeah, it happens. I wouldn't necessarily say it fails. It's more I think they get tired of the conversation sometimes. So it it fails a lot of times because people just want justice. They want their day in court, they want a judge to tell them what to do. Or in private divorces, they just want the lawyers to handle it.

Length of Mediation

Mirav Ozeri - Host 9:00

On average, how long is the process of mediation between couples?

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Each mediation, at least the first mediation, is two hours. If you if you do an hour, like you're you're just getting started, you know. So you really want that full two hours. And I would say mediations average four to eight hours. Oh, that's all. So that would be that would be two to four sessions. We had a couple ones that they wanted us to help them figure out how to clean out their garage, you know, down to and then another one came with a list that had you get the power cord, you get that, you know. So some people need more, and some people, you know, can do some of it offline on their own.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 9:41

You mentioned before private mediation versus court mediation. Could you explain to me what is the difference?

Mediation Vs. Courts

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Private mediation is that's how I do divorce, is privately. So my clients come to me, however, referrals or through different organizations or forums that I have our we have our name, and they pay full price. So, like the price of a lawyer. I also am a mediator, I am on the roster for custody and visitation for the New York City courts. So I get assigned to cases. These are parents who have children in common or a child in common, and either they've never been married, so they don't have an existing custody and visitation order that was part of their divorce, or it's post-divorce, meaning they already got divorced, they already had an order, but they're looking to change it. So they were married, but they want to change something to the custody and visitation part of it, and they go to court. One of them takes the other one to court and they get into court, and the judge or the referee will say to them, your court date is March 30th. Would you like to try mediation before then? And they say yes or no. And then we get assigned the case if they say yes, and we try to mediate with them before they have to go back to court, hopefully to reach an agreement. It it's it's been an amazing thing for the New York City family courts because it's been on clogging their cases. I will get to an agreement with with these people and they'll go back to court with an agreement. So all the referee has to do or the judge is do you agree to this? Yes, sign it, it's done. Personally, I prefer these cases. I don't get paid as much, but I prefer them because I've I don't because I don't like talking about money. I don't like the money, I don't like the the splitting the house, splitting the assets. It's it's dry to me. And I I you know I kind of let my partner do a lot of that. And then when we get to the parenting, I chime in and do a lot of that. There's a lot of emotions in it, and I like that.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 11:34

Do you have a case that stands out that you can tell us about it without mentioning names, obviously?

Inside A Session On Zoom

SPEAKER_00 11:40

I have one really fun one I'm gonna tell you about. There was a private mediation that was not a divorce. We had a couple who could, this was so many years ago, they couldn't decide what to name their child. They they not that they couldn't decide what to name their child. He was Catholic, she was Jewish, and he wanted to name it a family, he had a family name that was a Catholic name that he wanted to name the kid, and the mother was like, Oh my god, I can't, we can't. Um it was and it was a you know, if it was gonna be a boy, they didn't even know what sex it was. And we did, we did a like a buy the book mediation with a, we, you know, we had a piece of paper and we had pros and cons. And anyway, they came to an agreement that this Catholic name would be his, I think it was gonna be his first name. So when he was in school, he could he would always hear it, and the grandparents would call him that, but the name they both liked would be his second name, and that would be the name they called him. So it was great. We got to an agreement. I would say I Googled them or looked on Facebook for them a few months later, they had a girl. So I never had a boy.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 12:50

That is funny. What is more lucrative, court mediation or private mediation?

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Depends. For me, I make more money on the courts because I do more of them, even though I don't get paid very much.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 13:00

No, but one against the other. Do they get paid by the hour or by the case? Or how does it work? It's all by it's all by the hour.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Um, and it's not so so let's just talk about the private for a minute. It's not like an attorney that takes a retainer. But we charge by the hour, and they have to pay at the end of the session. So What do you charge per hour? My partner and I together charge$4.75 an hour. But if you really wanted to do this and have a lucrative business, then you would do a lot of networking with couples therapists, other attorneys. So that would be much more lucrative. I don't love it. And my partner has her own business also on, you know, separately. So so it's not something we make a lot of money on because we don't do a lot to sell ourselves. The court mediations, I love them. And I but I only make$75 an hour. But I have 13 to 15 clients at a time sometimes.

Timelines, Costs, And Odd Cases

Mirav Ozeri - Host 13:52

In my research for this segment, I read that to do it, uh, couple mediation in New York City goes anywhere between$3,000 to$9,000. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

So it depends, yeah. I mean, so so I would say if we're charging$475 an hour and we have eight hours or ten.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 14:11

Eight hours. Yeah, yeah, you get to around there, right. What what a court would cost.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Oh God. Could be$20,000, could be$50. I know somebody who spent$150,000 and that was just her. Oh no, it can, it's it depends on how contentious it is. And I, you know, I don't know if you have any friends who've gotten divorced. I have friends who've gotten I have two friends who've gotten divorced with narcissistic husbands. And these people just want to keep going. They just kept fighting to see how much they could get. And then all of a sudden there's crypto. So we have to dig into the crypto. How you know, how much was the crypto? And then you're hiring a forensic accountant for thousands of dollars. And yeah, it can it can get really, really, really litigious and nasty and expensive. Like I said, you're paying for your attorney's kid to go to college.

Mediation cases

Mirav Ozeri - Host 15:01

Right. So, what other cases you get? Landlord and tenants and divorced couples. Who what else?

Parents & Kids Mediation

Pricing, Workload, And Earnings

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Right. So I don't do those anymore, the landlord tenant, but the one that I really want to do, and I've done it a little bit here and there, is parents and their their children. Um, and I've done some cases of parents and their children, like their teenage children. I do really love that because what kind of thing? So let's just say the parents are having a really hard time with the kids, the kids aren't listening, the kids aren't are, you know, uh not so much skipping school, but drugs, alcohol, coming in the apartment in the house, shutting the door, not coming even to dinner, you know, that kind of thing. And they want to do mediation with their kids because they feel like they're losing their children, is what I would say. And so they're really interesting cases because the kids come in and they don't talk and they're looking at all these adults around the table. And my role is this balance of power, right? You're you're as important at this table as your parents are. And I don't necessarily say it, but I show it. And I show it by by talking to them and asking them, what does that feel like to you? What you know, what what happened when mom said that, when you know dad did this. And little by little the kids talk and express what's going on with them and why they're sick of their parents doing this, or and then the parents talk about their fears about their child and why they're they're worried about them. It's amazing. It's so great. And you have to be very aware. Like I just did a training on cultural differences. I did a mediation once with this, it was so crazy. It was it was like June or May or June of his senior year in high school. And he was, I think he was first generation Indian. His mother was born in India, and they lived in Queens, and the mother was so upset that the kid was coming home late. He's coming home late. He comes home late every night, and I don't know what to do. And I, you know, just I and I'm thinking, she's worrying. No, she's not worrying. And so I'm asking, what is late? What time is he coming home? He comes home sometimes at 5 or 6 p.m. Personally, I'm thinking, yeah, he's 18 years old. What the hell is your problem? And I'm kind of looking at him like, why are you not standing up for yourself? This is crazy. It turns out what she didn't like was he's supposed to be home for dinner. He's supposed to be home for the family dinner. And he comes in, he's lost his key, he's done whatever, he's rattling the door, he's making noise. So now all the neighbors know that he's coming home late. So it was so interesting. But you just have to go with it because culturally uh that was their issue or her issue.

Skills, Misconceptions, And Careers

Mirav Ozeri - Host 17:36

Interesting. What would you say is the important skills or character traits for somebody to be a good mediator?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

That's a good question. Definitely have to be a good listener. You have to care about people understanding each other. I have empathy for people and I don't have judgment, and I I just want people to tell me why that's your position. Why is that important to you? What does that mean to you? So it's I think it's a curiosity, a curiosity for uh where somebody is coming from.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 18:07

If somebody starts a practice, let's say they went through the training, how long do you think before they actually can make a full income?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

If they're already an attorney, so so that was the other thing is a lot of a lot of people who are attorneys, and even if they're family, you know, if they're family attorneys, they're matrimonial attorneys, they they've done divorce, a lawyer could take a training and say he's a mediator or she's a mediator right away. But somebody like me, who or even a therapist who starts from nothing, you know, I did my training in November of 2007, and I think we saw our first clients like two years later, because you need to you need to practice. But I would say before you're really making an earning, if you're not turning your law practice into that, that's quicker. A couple years.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 18:54

What would you say is the biggest misconception about mediation?

Who shouldn't do mediations

SPEAKER_00 18:58

That you can't have a lot of money to go through mediation. I think a lot of people who have a lot of assets think that they can't do mediation. That tied with if you're high conflict, you don't get along, whatever, you can't go through mediation. Those are both false.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 19:14

And if somebody you did mediation and they agreed, and then uh a year later somebody negated on the agreement, what happens in that case?

SPEAKER_00 19:21

So in that case, they have a court order and they go back to court because somebody is in violation of the court order.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 19:28

And what's the biggest challenge about being a mediator?

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Not for the courts, but privately I would say getting clients.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 19:34

Yeah, just like any business, right. What's the biggest reward?

Importance of Communication

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Oh my god. It's just just seeing parents communicating with each other, understanding each other, saying they're sorry, working through issues that the that they've had for for years. It's like it's amazing. And typically in my court sessions, the first the first session, I'll never let the attorney for the child come to the first session if I can help it. Because I'm like, you don't want to be in the first session because they're yelling and fighting, not always, but sometimes, and you're a liar, you're a this, you're this, and they have to get it out. And I just let it go and I, you know, I listen, I reflect, I loop, I do whatever you do. And then at the end, maybe sometimes the last 20 minutes, we can get some sort of agreement on something. But then I'm like, okay, that's you know, you guys are probably pretty exhausted. It's been two hours, let's make another session. Come back the next session, they are ready to work. Oh, it's like, it's like amazing. It's like I I had somebody observing me because he was trying to become a mediator for the courts. And after the first session, he's like, Oh, this will never work. And I'm like, maybe, I don't know. And then the second session, we got the whole agreement. Like it was done in that session. And he was, what? What happened? I said, because they got out what they needed to get out. They felt heard, they were ready to move on and do what they needed to do for their kids. You know, in mediation, you don't give advice. You you really because you have no skin in the game. And you don't, if you give advice and it looks like you have skin in the game. But the one advice I do give to people is I will say, and not to everybody, but it depends on the the parents and what's going on with them. I will say, your children, especially if they're smart, and as they get older, you know, sometimes they're two years old and sometimes they're 12, but as they get older, they will learn that the two of you don't communicate. And they will put that over on you and they'll manipulate you, and they will, you know, use that against you. And your troubles will only get deeper and worse. So the most important thing the two of you can do is to constantly communicate. Don't make assumptions that what the child tells you is true. Always say, thank you for telling me, I'll talk to your mother or I'll talk to your father. And double check before you believe it. And also tell your children I spoke to your dad and he told me you got an A on a test. I spoke to your mom and she said you're made a goal in soccer. All the kids hear is mom and dad are talking and they're talking. About me, and then they can't do that to you. Because that is a lot of what parents fight about, is because the kids, ding, ding, ding. I can say this to dad, and he'll do this for me, and I can do this to mom, and that causes the problem. So they constantly need to communicate on the side with each other. So that's the only advice I give people, and it's not biased. And I make sure I tell the story with using both of them.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 22:23

So do you have dreams of doing mediation of other kinds between businesses, between nations, maybe? I don't know.

Reward, Breakthrough and Advice

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Yeah, it's funny. When somebody told me the the whole way I got into mediation is I was going out with somebody and her partner was go, she said, Oh, she's gonna be late because she's going through mediation with her ex. I'm like, what? Mediation with couples? Like I only knew it as union, big union, you know, labor disputes or Middle East peace or something. So that's how I got interested in it. No, I I I kind of don't. I mean, maybe if I were younger.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 23:01

Do you do you see yourself continuing doing it for a long time?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Do you love it? I do love it. I do. And I love that it's like my own hours. I do it like right here. I I, you know, I don't have to go anywhere. Um, because there's sometimes no shows, and you know, I used to travel to Queens and you get there an hour after traveling, and then it's like they didn't show up. So I love doing it remotely. We lived in France for a year and I did them from there. Oh, wow. Which was great. So yeah, I see myself. I mean, I've got a 29-year-old, but I also have a 12-year-old. So I'll do it till at least till he goes to college, and then we'll see what I do.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 23:34

I have so many friends that are divorced. I wonder if they went to court on mediation. I never asked them.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

One of my friends, I said to her when she started you really should do mediation, da-da-da-da-da. And she said, No, it's too complicated. It's this, it's this. I said, This is how it's going to end up. And three and a half years later, and really few hundreds of thousands of dollars later, that's exactly how it ended up.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 23:56

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

No, exactly. Exactly. So it's um, and then I have a good friend who did mediation and she did two sessions and and they're done.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 24:05

People should take this as an advice because you really could save a lot of money. Good to know. Yeah.

unknown 24:11

All right.

ending

Mirav Ozeri - Host 24:13

Thank you so much. If this conversation made you think differently about divorce, relationship, mediation, or even about your own skill set, please share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. And before you leave, please like and review. That really helps the show a lot. Thank you and see you next week on How Much Can I Make?