Careers, Money, And The Economy Explained

Economics Journalist

Understanding basic economics can significantly impact your job and earnings. 

We sit down with Peter Coy, a veteran economics journalist who has written for Bloomberg Businessweek, The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal.

Peter shares career insights into the economics of journalism, explaining how stories are pitched and shaped, and how innovative platforms like Substack and AI are transforming media careers. He offers practical job advice on navigating income, sustainability, and long-term success factors in journalism and related fields.

If you’re interested in journalism careers, media jobs, or how economics shapes work and money, this episode offers clear, practical insight.

Connect with Peter:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petercoy1/

Substack: petercoy.substack.com

X:  @petercoy

Bluesky: petercoy.bsky.social

Instagram & TikTok : peterhcoy

How Much Can I Make? Is nominated for 2026 Women in Podcasting Award!

Want us to cover a specific job? Shoot us an email!

Visit howmuchcanimake.info

Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I've seen surveys showing that shockingly few people are able to answer basic questions about like inflation and interest rates. They just don't get it and they therefore make bad decisions. You know, that's real pocketbook stuff.

Host Introduction And Guest Setup

Peter’s Path Through Journalism

Mirav Ozeri - Host 0:18

Hi, welcome back to How Much Can I Make? I'm your host, Miravozeri. Think about it. What if understanding the economy could actually help you make better career decisions or money decisions? My guest today is Peter Koy, one of the clearest voices in economic and business journalism. He's written for the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg Business Week. And now publishes the substack Economics for Everyone. So let's turn to Peter and find out about jobs, careers, income, journalism, AI, and more. Okay Peter, thank you so much for doing it. And I was really looking forward to interviewing you because there's so many things with the economy that is up and down. So I want to get some answers. But before we get to that, I want to ask about you. You went from local newspaper to national publications.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Right.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 1:13

Big ones. Tell us a little bit about your career path.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I worked for my college newspaper, and I became the editor-in-chief my senior year. And as I was going through college, I started realizing I don't know what I want to do for a living, right? But hey, maybe I could just work for a newspaper. I've been doing it for free in college, they'll pay me a salary. So that's what I did. I went to work, uh got a job at the Waterbury, Connecticut newspaper, the Republican and American. And then after a year and a half there, I was hired by the Associated Press.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 1:43

In all of those publications you wrote about the economy?

Learning Complex Economics On The Job

SPEAKER_00 1:46

In the early days, I was a general assignment reporter in Waterbury and Albany. And by the time I got to Rochester, Rochester's the home of Kodak, of course. Right. And Xerox had big operations there. Baush and Laum was there. And then I was also responsible for Corning, which was in Corning, New York, Canada Wine Company and stuff. So it became sort of a business reporting job. Even though I was responsible for everything that happened there, it just happened to have a lot of business. So I was covering things like this is back in the early 80s. In 1985, the US dollar became extremely expensive compared to other currencies. And this was a big burden on companies like Kodak. So the company would be looking to try to find ways to reduce the value of the dollar, and they the CEO chairman invited me in to give an interview. And so that made news. Here I was, you know, with really no, I took one year of economics in college, but I wouldn't say I was certainly not highly trained in economics. I was having to understand things like foreign exchange, you know, currency exchange rates and unemployment and inflation, all these things. Found them utterly fascinating. So then the editor in New York saw that I was interested in this, he brought me down. So then I was working in Manhattan in the heart of, you know, world finance, started covering these topics. Then I got hired by Business Week and worked there for a long time, like um almost um 32 years. And then I got hired by the New York Times opinion section, and I was working there up until you know last February. It's a combination of what you want and what's available that's out there. I'm sure, Mirave, you talked to a lot of people. They all find their own way in unpredictable ways. Career paths are winding and you know, you can't see around the corner till you get there, right?

Mirav Ozeri - Host 3:35

Totally. And a lot of it is a luck, but this is uh what I'd like to know. What skilled meta the most for you? Was it actually luck or was it fast reporting, curiosity, expertise? What what enhanced your career like that so fast?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

I think what my skill is, I'm not an investigative reporter. That's I've done some of that here and there, but it's not my strength. I'm also not like a personality profile person. Again, I've done it here and there, but there are many people way better than I am at that. Say what I'm good at is latching on to some complicated subject, figuring it out, and then trying to explain it to a general audience. Going back to what we talked about before with the the dollar and codec, something called the J Curve effect. And once I heard about the J Curve effect, I said, I have to understand that J Curve effect. And I I dug into it and talked to economists and they explained it, and we we wrote an article about it, and I just I love stuff like that. I've been doing it all my career.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 4:37

Walk me through the process from the idea of writing about a subject till a printed article.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 4:43

What is the process like for you?

How Weekly Magazines Run And Pitch

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Well, it all depends. I'll tell you business week, because that's where I spent more years than any other place. Close date of each issue was a Wednesday. By the way, business week is now a monthly but changed like last year. But the whole time I was there, it was a weekly. And so you would have a meeting on Thursday or Friday to plan out the coming week's issue, and people would pitch their story ideas. Some would get approved, some not. If it's a fast-changing news story, then you've got to be constantly updating and getting new information. So there are some articles that you wouldn't even start until Monday because something would break over the weekend. There were even occasional times where something would happen on a Wednesday morning and you would have to write a whole article and get it into publication by you know Wednesday afternoon, evening. That was where the that's when the adrenaline is really pumping.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 5:34

But you was you said something, the pitch. Do you pitch an idea?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah, well, uh it would there's a certain number of editors who would pitch. Right. So like I would pitch to my editor and then the editor would pitch to the So how do you find the subject you want to write about?

Mirav Ozeri - Host 5:48

What's the process there?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Well, if you're a good reporter, then you're kind of soaking in your topic. You're you're you're in it all the time, you're talking to people about it, and you know you you're marinating. It's like it's your life. And so you always have story ideas. It's it's it's a matter of which story idea, not whether there are any story ideas. And so you're always thinking that other reporters are out doing the same thing, and you want to be ahead of them, ideally, so then it becomes a matter of who can execute first.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:19

Do you have any contact with your readers? You get any feedback?

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah. The most feedback I ever got was when I was at the New York Times. So I worked in the opinion section, I had a newsletter. It originally came out three days a week, and then it went down to two, but people have would have to subscribe to it to see it. A lot of my readers were people who deliberately signed up because they wanted to see what it had to say, and that was fun. Sometimes I would get story ideas from them. I would read the comments. Oh, and they would I had a lot of smart readers and they would say, you know, I disagree with you on this, or I agree with you, but here's something you left out, that kind of thing.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:56

I know people read headlines only.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yes.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 6:59

And tension span is shrunk to like a few seconds.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yes.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 7:03

How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Well, headlines are really important. So you gotta find a headline that accurately represents what you're gonna say, but also hooks people. And actually that come trying to come up with a good headline can help influence what you end up saying, because you think, well, yeah, that's a grabby headline, but now how do I justify it? How do I how do I make sure that I deliver on what I said in the headline? You try to avoid clickbait, which is where it's pure, you know, catchy and there's no substance. Because people will they might click the first few times, but after a while they get tired of this. They'll feel that being misled. At the same time, don't be boring because then they're never gonna click in the first place. So that's that's there's a real art to doing that. And then then past the headline, your first paragraph is also super important. Super. Right. Because you usually don't want to just flatly deliver the bottom line of your story in the first sentence. But you also don't want to take too long to get to your main point. So it's an interesting balancing act.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 8:08

You worked for, like you mentioned, Business Week, the New York Times. What is the pay structure? Is it different from publication to publication?

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Yeah, and Business Week paid pretty well. Uh, the opinion section of the Times is pays well. I was happy there.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 8:23

But is it equal pay for orange?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Well, the Times pays basically lured me away uh by offering me more money than I was getting at Bloomberg, so that was nice. Overall, if people are listening to this and they're thinking, oh, I want to go into journalism to make a lot of money. It's like, no, no, no. Overall, journalism is not a highly paid profession. People don't go into it for the money. They go into it because they love it.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 8:50

It's a passion job. Yeah.

If you want to be a writer

SPEAKER_00 8:52

And that's more true now than when I started. When I started, there were a lot of jobs, you know, when I was in college and I went around to all these sm newspapers in New England, you know, Worcester Mass and Hartford, Connecticut, and New Haven and so on. They all had pretty substantial newsrooms. Those newspapers now have drastically shrunk uh to their newsrooms, so it's really hard to get a job with one of them. Now, there are new outlets, of course, we all know about them. Some of them are more nation, you know, some of them just rely on freelancers, they just don't pay that well. Not to say there aren't still good paying jobs in journalism, there are, but I would say a smart person who would be a successful journalist would probably also be successful in other fields, uh, because you know, they could be good lawyers, they could be good business people. It's they would they're curious, they're good at expressing themselves, they may be good diggers. If they're just looking to make a comfortable living, journalism is probably not their best choice, but as you said, it's a passion job. I don't know if I were uh starting out today, if if I would go on that track, as much as it's much as much as I've loved it and I continue to love it and I'm still doing it, it might not be the right point for somebody today. The most important thing is to, if you want to be a writer, is to write. And that means find a job where people need you to produce a lot of copy. We call it copy, right? And uh write like hell and you get better as you do it. You don't want to do just the what your editors ask you for, because their job is to, you know, pr produce the sausage every day, and you'll end up doing a lot of kind of acceptable stuff, but it won't be brilliant because you're rushed to just get it done. So try to carve out some time in your working day or after work and in your evening hours, whenever life's weekends, to do some special stuff that will and you'll make your editors happy because you know they didn't ask for it, but when they see it, they're saying, This is great, I love it. More, give me more of that. And it'll be useful to you because you'll be able to show those clips to other publications you might want to work someday as you try to climb the ladder.

Role of editor

Mirav Ozeri - Host 11:09

Do editors ask you to write stories that the same subject, that are the hardest subject in the economy?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

The editors ideally you should know more about your topic than the editor. So the editor should be asking you for ideas. If you're in a situation where you're just taking ideas from the editor, eh, that's not good. It means that you haven't been creative enough or you don't know your beat well enough.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 11:34

How long do you have to spend researching the subject? On average.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah, so the research takes longer than the writing. That's something people don't always understand. The writing is almost like the final stage, it kind of comes together quickly. Most of the work goes into studying the subject, reading widely, gathering new information, and so on. When I was doing my New York Times opinion newsletter, as I'm doing three a week, I was basically working all the time. I wasn't eating or exercising or something. I was probably researching or writing. I would be in the car and my wife would be driving and I'd be on my Wi-Fi hotspot, you know, doing work.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 12:16

You mentioned before that journalism is changing. And you have your uh Substack, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Oh, let's talk about that.

 nworking on Substack

Mirav Ozeri - Host 12:25

I want to talk about I want to talk about your Substack because I know a lot of writers now go through Substack.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yes.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 12:31

First of all, can you make money on Substack?

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yes.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 12:34

Really? How?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

I'm not yet making money on Substack because I'm keeping my Substack free for now. Petercoy.substack.com, a little pitch there. Paul Krugman, the famous Nobel Prize-winning economist who was uh spent 25 years as an economics columnist at the New York Times. So we worked together at the Times. We were the two people who were on staff who covered economics. Although he was kind of way above me, he was a columnist and I was an opinion writer, which is not technically columnist. But we collaborated on some projects. It was totally cool. Great admirer of Paul Krugman. But when he left the Times, he started a Substack and he and his wife put it together, and it's been hugely successful. I know he's up over 400,000 readers. I don't even know what the current number is, it's just keeps going up. So he started charging, even though he didn't need the money. You know, he has a successful textbook and uh speaking fees and you know years of salary at the time. I think he was kind of just like to see if people would sign up, people would pay. So Substack, you can either have it free or you can have a subscription, or you can have a hybrid. A lot of people have a hybrid. Some of their stuff is free, but some of the stuff is behind a paywall. The concept there is if you have everything behind a paywall, it's hard to get new people because you don't have any welcome at. You don't have anything out there for them to see if they would ever want to read it. So you have some stuff free and you get people to like what you're doing, and then they want more and more and more. So you say, okay, if you want this extra special thing, you're gonna have to get a subscription.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 14:08

What other personalities did you meet throughout your career?

SPEAKER_00 14:11

I've been lucky enough to have interviewed almost every top head of the Federal Reserve, for example. Oh. I've interviewed Paul Volcker and Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke and Janet Yellen and Jerome Powell, you know, basically the whole string of them back to the early 80s.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 14:29

Who impressed you the most?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Oh, uh that's a great question. Probably Janet Yellen. Oh. So Janet Yellen, I just came back from Philadelphia for the annual meeting of the American Economic Association, and she was there, and she is like a rock star now because she's a very strong woman. She's petite, she's uh soft-spoken, but she has a spine of steel, and she's still so sharp, and she knows what she wants and she knows what she believes in. So one of the big issues for her is that there's been economics has been an unfriendly profession for women. Yes. And she's working hard to turn that around, to get more women to study economics and to go into it uh at a PhD level, be protected from harassment and you know, mistreatment in their careers. Her other big issue is preserving the independence of the Federal Reserve. She spoke about that in Philadelphia. And I'm planning to write something about this. She to me, she's like the new uh Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Right? They even have uh tote bags that they were handing out in Philadelphia saying uh never stop yelling.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 15:38

Oh that's great.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

It's cute with a picture of her like like with sunglasses and stuff.

Journalism todayd Do

Mirav Ozeri - Host 15:45

Oh. Yeah. I want to go back a little bit about career. If somebody wants to start a career today, what's your advice as far as the economy? What segment or industry should they avoid? Where do you see the trend going?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

You know, this is a especially I know people always say that it's harder than ever to see the future, but I really think that's true these days, and it's mostly because of AI. I am sure that you've been talking to people about AI. Totally. Right? And there's a good reason for that because it really is world-changing.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 16:17

And it's a threat to your profession, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

It is, yeah. There are people who are using it. I I saw one woman on Substack complaining that there are a bunch of people who are basically using bots, using AI to generate their posts on Substack and getting a lot of followers and making money. And they they're laughing all the way to the bank. They're saying, Don't talk to me about purity, don't talk to me. Uh if it's working, it's working. I'm look, readers are reading it. What's who's to complain, right? And and the human beings are like, you feel like you're the person with a shovel while somebody else has a steam shovel, right? Why am I still doing it the old-fashioned way by hand? I'm using my own pitiful brain when I could just hire a computer to uh do my journalism for me. It really does sometimes feel like uh when I was a kid, there was a st a short story that they would put on the TV about this guy, I forget what his name was, but he would compete, he was competing against a steam shovel to dig the foundation for a building, and of course he couldn't keep up. And you can sometimes it feels like that way with journals of what are we trying to do here. There are some things that computers still can't do. For example, a computer can't call up an economist and do an interview with him or her for a piece. They can only reprocess stuff that's already been written by others. Right. That's why investigative reporting continues to be valuable because they're you're finding out stuff. Subsequently, sure, AI can pick it up and reprocess it, but you're the one who's creating the original value. So that's what I would say, whatever profession you're going in, try to make sure that you are generating something genuinely new because that is immune to AI.

Ai disruption

Mirav Ozeri - Host 18:02

Are there any industries that you think are future-proof as far as AI goes?

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Oh, I don't think so. Unfortunately, it's it's hard to imagine anything that is future-proof because as long as automation was simply replacing stuff that we did physically, like uh it's the steam shovel, okay, fine, I'm not gonna uh dig ditches anymore. I'll do something like I'll work in a factory. Okay, and then the robots came along and replaced that. Okay, fine, okay, I'll do something that's that's kind of brain work. That's the that's what the problem is, because now the AI is taking over what makes us we we always thought of makes us unique as human beings, is that we have brains. But if it can replicate our brain work, it's hard to see what the refuge is. So it's hard not to be pessimistic. The optimistic side, of course, is that hey, uh if AI can produce new drugs and new materials and make the world a better place while we watch the Yankees on TV, hey, what's wrong with that? Right?

Mirav Ozeri - Host 19:05

I know. Oh, before I get to your book, because I found it very interesting, but before I get to your book, I want to know when people learn about the economy, do you think that they make better choices about career and money, or they just feel better about themselves?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

That's a good question because it gets to the question of why should you bother learning about the economy. Exactly.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 19:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

You know, one reason is what you said is just that you should learn about the economy for the same reason you should learn about music or art or history. Just because to be a well-rounded human being, you should understand a little bit about all kinds of things. And not just should, but but it's wonderful, it's totally cool. And so there's that value to it. There's also a practical value, I would say. It could help you in your make smarter decisions with your personal finances, for example. Uh, I've seen surveys showing that shockingly few people are able to answer basic questions. About like inflation and interest rates.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 20:02

Right. I don't think people understand it.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

That hurt them financially. You know, that's a real pocketbook stuff.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 20:14

Yeah. Okay, I want to talk about your book. It is called Economic Without Numbers.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

That's the tentative title, yeah.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 20:21

Tentative. When is it due, by the way?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Uh early 27.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 20:24

This is uh supposedly dealing with economics without math. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 20:29

Is it possible?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Well, it is possible. It's without math, it's without graphs, it's without formulas. The concept is that you can tell the stor a lot of important economic ideas through metaphors. So one of the most famous is from the great Scottish economist Adam Smith, wrote a book called The Wealth of Nations in 1776. Coincidentally, same year as the Declaration of Independence, 250 years ago. Right. And uh he talked about the invisible hand. And he said, it is not through their benevolence that the butcher and the baker provide us with the food that we need. It's through their pursuit of their own self-interest. And that's the way a market system works. You have certain people supplying stuff and other people consuming stuff, and just through the working of the price mechanism and you coordinate supply and demand, and wonderful things happen. It's one of the core metaphors of economics, and it's in my book. But I have accumulated like more than 500.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 21:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Yeah. They all kind of illuminate one aspect or another of important stuff. And the reason I thought metaphors would be useful is first they're fun. They're just stuff that you don't have to be an economist to get it. Once I explain it, she'd like this.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 21:40

It's like, oh yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

That makes sense.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 21:43

How did the book come about?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So years ago I was on public radio talking about some economic thing, I don't remember what it was, and a literary agent called up and said, Hey Peter, you're really good at explaining things. You should do a book explaining how the economy works. I took a couple cracks at it and straight ahead, like, the gross domestic product is the amount of goods and services per you know, and I was boring myself. I said, I cannot just do that.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 22:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Uh no, I gotta have a gimmick. The gimmick was the metaphor idea. And so once I hit upon that, it became fun for me. I think if it's fun for me, it'll be fun for readers too. If I can manage to get across a better understanding of economics for a broad group of people in American other countries, because books are going to be published in other countries as well, I feel like I've done a real service. And and provided some fun too, because it's it's a kind of book, it's supposed to be browsable. There may be people who will never finish the book, but they'll pick it up, they'll flip pages, look at the illustrations, you know.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 22:44

Read reviews, get some ideas, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

A little bit here and there, yeah.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 22:48

Do you explain the whole Feds idea in your book? Because I don't really understand that so much. Why they're important, and how it do you explain this in your book?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I have a lot of the Federal Reserve comes up many times. I don't know if I have an exact metaphor specifically about the Federal Reserve, but I I should be thinking about that. Maybe uh you'll inspire me to add something to the book.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 23:12

It will be good if I can get everything in one book. That's my laziness instead of doing my own research.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Thank you, Mirabal Zara. I appreciate that.

Tariffs: When They Help And Hurt

Mirav Ozeri - Host 23:20

Now, I have to ask you, do you think tariffs are good for America or bad for America? I hear arguments on both sides.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Right. I think there is a role for strategic temporary targeted tariffs. For example, if there's another country that is subsidizing a product, you might want to put a tariff on to get them to lower their subsidy. Or if there's some good that you feel like is really important to be produced in America, let's say something very sensitive for national defense, you might put a tariff on that to encourage domestic production of it. But what I think is a mistake is relying on tariffs as a form of revenue raising, where you put them broadly on many products from many countries. Another problem with broad tariffs is that right now our foremost uh economic uh challenger is China. And China has in some ways played on fairly, but it's hard to form a coalition to get China to behave better if we're putting tariffs on Canada and the UK and France and Germany who should be our allies in confronting China.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 24:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yeah.

Forecasts, Productivity, And AI Upside

Mirav Ozeri - Host 24:33

And lastly, I want to hear from you where do you see the economy going from here?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

That's a great question. Well, I am not the world's best prognosticator. Like for a long while I predicted that the Fed was going to cause a recession by raising interest rates too much after the uh big jump in inflation we had, the COVID jump in inflation, and it never happened. A lot of people made that same prediction, but they backed off from their prediction, and I did not back off from their prediction. I stuck with it too long. Finally, like a year or so ago, I said, okay, I was wrong. So I wouldn't take anything I say to the bank. But again, this past year, the economy has done surprisingly well. I know. The economy is a little bit like an ocean liner where it has a lot of momentum and takes a lot of tugboats to slow it down, or or it takes you have to put the engines in reverse for a long time to uh to really throw it off course. So we may avoid recession again in 2026. Right now it's really not in the forecast. I think the more important question is what's the long-term outlook. So for that, the most important thing is our productivity growth, which is the managed amount of output we can achieve per hour of like labor or inputs of machines and so on. And there's been some good news about that lately. It seems like productivity is growing, which is good for our living standards. And you know, we talked about the downside of AI taking all our jobs. The upside is that it could make the economy much more productive and create wealth that could be distributed to all of us, including the people who get thrown out of work.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 26:12

Yeah, well, right now we see the wealth going only to the billionaires and they are making insider trading and uh right.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

So that's what you want to do. You want to have use the government to make sure that doesn't happen to redistribute so that everybody enjoys the benefits.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 26:27

Yeah, it also depends on different administration. For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Are you happy as a I'm very happy with the way things turned out for me? Okay, and and I'm I'm glad I made the choice I made. That's different from saying I would do it today because the world has changed. To do it all over today, maybe I become a uh teacher or a cross-country coach or something like that. Or maybe I'd grow vegetables.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 26:55

All right, okay, thank you so much. On that note, the vegetables note.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 27:01

I'll say thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Thank you. Nice to have you here talking to me about this. Enjoyed it.

Mirav Ozeri - Host 27:07

Thank you. For anyone listening who wants to better understand the forces shaping their work life or career, I highly recommend Peter's hubstack, Economics for Everyone. Peter, and you out there listening to us, thank you for joining me. I will see you next week on How Much Can I Make.