How Much Can I Make? - Career Insights For Your Job Search
Jobs & Career Insights with Mirav Ozeri
Your inside scoop on the job market. Whether you’re chasing your first job, switching careers, or dreaming of being an entrepreneur, this podcast gives you the career advice you actually need.
We go beyond the job titles—breaking down what careers are really like, how do you brake in, how much you can earn, and the skills it takes to succeed. From career insights to real-world job stories, you’ll hear from people who’ve navigated the in and out of the job market and came out on top.
If you’re exploring new career possibilities or just want practical, straight-up job advice, this is the podcast for you.
Nominated for 2025 Women Podcasters award.
How Much Can I Make? - Career Insights For Your Job Search
Entrepreneurs Insights - The Art of Boutique Hospitality
Boutique Hotel Entrepreneurs
Quit your job, move to the mountains, and become a hotel entrepreneur—easy, right? Martin Torres and Joe DiThomas actually did it, leaving NYC careers behind to run Graham & Co. a 20-room boutique hotel in the Catskills.
This episode delves into the nuances of the hospitality industry, offering valuable career insights and showcasing the real success factors that come with being a hotel entrepreneur. From creating unforgettable guest experiences to navigating financial challenges like $30K flood insurance bills, they share essential job advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Whether you’re plotting your own career pivot, or need job insights from the hospitality industry—this episode gives you in and out of building a hotel that’s so much more than a place to crash.
Graham & Co. website: https://www.thegrahamandco.com/
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Music credit: Kate Pierson & Monica Nation
We've had people come that are from the same block in Brooklyn and they come and meet each other here at the fire pit and they leave as friends.
Speaker 2:Hi, welcome back to how Much Can I Make. I'm your host, merav Uzeri. Today we're going to chat with Martin and Joe, the duo behind Grumman Corporation, which is a 20-room boutique hotel in the Catskills, a getaway destination for travelers near and far. So let's find out what it takes to turn a dream of running a boutique hotel into a reality. Hi, thank you very much for your time and agreeing to do it. I totally appreciate it. So, first of all, before we get to the name and all of that, how did it come about that you moved from New York City to the Catskill?
Speaker 1:We had a house in Woodstock for 25 years. Yeah, 25 years. So, and we loved it. And slowly but surely, you know we would spend a weekend, we would come here once a month, then you come here once every other week, and then you come here every weekend, and then you come as much as you possibly can.
Speaker 3:Before you know it, you don't ever want to leave here?
Speaker 1:That's right, yes. And then your life becomes much richer here than it does in the city. To leave here, that's right, yes. And then your life becomes much richer here than it does in the city. And then, plus, we were both in jobs that you know. We had to be in the city Demanded. I was in advertising, joe was in real estate, and we didn't want to be in those businesses anymore, so it made sense to be here.
Speaker 2:So how did it come about that you bought a motel, a hotel actually?
Speaker 3:Good question. Well, we actually had an offer in um on another, property in down the road here it was going to be like a business center.
Speaker 1:We work, yeah we work center kind of. You know, we were kind of set up and we were going to do it in the old phoenicia pharmacy, but the long tentacles of new york city come all the way up here, oh yes and if you, if you want to change the water usage of a building and it it was a pharmacy, which a pharmacy selling postcards and everyday goods doesn't use much water.
Speaker 1:To a coffee bar during the day and a bar bar at night, that's a lot of water, and so dealing with the city of New York became overwhelming, and so we just couldn't do it anymore.
Speaker 3:We had to go through five different agencies for approval on the water.
Speaker 2:And New York City had anything to do with it.
Speaker 3:They had everything to do with it.
Speaker 1:They had everything to do with it because they own a lot of the water rights, the little stream that's across the street. Before you do anything, you have to get in touch with the city of New York, because it all feeds into the reservoir and New York City has all feeds into the reservoir and New York City has a say in how the water up here is used, if you can believe it. And that became too problematic and while we were trying to buy that, we met the people that own the Graham Co and they said well, you?
Speaker 3:know we want this. It was by accident, by the way.
Speaker 2:Oh really, you just drove by and saw it, so we walked over here from town and we wanted to.
Speaker 3:We knew it was here. We wanted to tell them what our plans were.
Speaker 1:And then they said well, you know, we're thinking of selling our this place. Do you know anyone who might want it? And suddenly our plan b became much more clearer. Yeah, that's, that is true, right, right yes, so the plan B became the plan A and we had to drop the idea of buying the Phoenicia Pharmacy. And then we shifted gears and we bought the hotel. That was fortuitous, because I don't think our idea for the pharmacy and bar and coffee bar and all that would have made it through the pandemic.
Speaker 2:It used to be the Cobblestone Motel. Yes, it through the pandemic. It used to be the.
Speaker 3:Cobblestone Motel. Yes, it was yes.
Speaker 2:And then it was the Graham Corporation, by the way. Did they do the renovation? The Graham Corporation?
Speaker 1:They did a lot of the renovation, so it was a team of four creatives. They did the initial redesign of many of the rooms. They named it also because I know you're going to probably ask me about the name.
Speaker 2:I will, because why did? You keep them in.
Speaker 1:Well, because? Well, I'll tell you that. I'll tell you why. Because they had a great following. When we bought the place and it was already well established and, coming from my advertising background, I recognized how well branded this place was and I knew that it was a great thing. And the Gram Co is something that can be rebranded and used in a lot of different things. So I knew it was a great brand to have and when we bought it, I was insistent that we own the brand as well.
Speaker 2:Did they charge you more because you wanted it was?
Speaker 1:part of the sale.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, it was part of the sale.
Speaker 1:If you go into the rooms, the blankets and all our body washes and shampoos they're all well-branded and I could see this from the very beginning and I knew what a great thing it was. So they did a lot of the initial work, but then we bought it and we kept going. You know, the wifi here was not good and you need-Fi.
Speaker 3:It was all scotch tape together in the ceiling. Believe me, it's a $4,000 job.
Speaker 2:I'm not quoting, but yeah, so it wasn't your dream to have a boutique hotel right?
Speaker 3:Not at all no.
Speaker 2:When you presented with this Grand Corporation opportunity, did you have a second thought or you jumped? This is it this is it.
Speaker 3:Martin jumped. I have second thoughts about everything.
Speaker 1:I absolutely knew this is what we had to do.
Speaker 2:Did you try doing Airbnb in your Woodstock house before? Yeah, we did. Yeah, it was very successful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we had very big demand. Well, you know what happened in Woodstock though. Right, yes, they outlawed it.
Speaker 2:So what would you say is the difference between running a motel, besides the many rooms that you have here, versus an Airbnb With an?
Speaker 1:Airbnb probably. You work really hard and you put time into it and you make it nice and wonderful, but you generally leave when the guests show up, you set it and go. Yes, you set it and you leave With a hotel. We're here when the guests are here. We try and entertain the guests. We want to make sure we provide experiences for them that are memorable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to ask you about the experiences For the big weekends. Memorial Day, fourth of July, labor Day we start off with a beer and wine reception, and sometimes we have a DJ during the weekend.
Speaker 3:Sometimes we have a cocktail hour.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we have a cocktail.
Speaker 2:Is this just for your guests or is it also for the locals? No, it's just for the guests, okay.
Speaker 1:Because if you're asking them to, if you have a three-night minimum and you're asking them to stay three nights, that's a big ask on your part of them, so you want to make sure that they are happy when they leave. That's super important and so I say that I think that's the hospitality part is the big difference, and also being staffed properly. I mean, we are so lucky to have some amazing staff working for us and we always get good marks online for our friendliness and like just being like helpful and things like that.
Speaker 2:How?
Speaker 1:many people in total do you have working here? I'd say about 10. Wow, yeah. People in total do you have working here? I'd say about 10.
Speaker 3:Wow, yeah, that's in the super busy season.
Speaker 1:It goes down to about half of that. Sure yeah In spring and I have to say we've got a great team right now.
Speaker 3:They're fantastic now. Yeah, we have a lot of very enthusiastic people here now.
Speaker 1:A good friend of ours. His name is Steve. He's really good with aesthetics and he always brings new ideas like oh, what if we put some lights in the back of the pool? Or what if we put, like the sign and we put it sideways? And he's always looking to make the hotel look better. I can handle the guests and make them feel like they're going home happy. Joe's got an eye on everything.
Speaker 3:Steve has the aesthetics, natalie's got all the booking and all of that she's got that so down this summer was, went well because we were all operating like a great team. I can't really believe the summer's over already.
Speaker 2:I want to go back to the experiences. If you can tell me because I was surprised to read about it and I think it's fantastic If you can tell me what kind of experiences you offer here.
Speaker 1:I think, going back to your other question, what's the difference between an Airbnb and running a hotel? I think that's the main thing is that the game has gotten elevated because people don't, you know, this used to be in the cobblestone and days, and we stayed here. Then we stayed here in 97 and we saw what it was like it was, you know it was just a place to stay.
Speaker 2:It was very small town and but now people expect way more.
Speaker 1:They want to come and they want to make memorable experiences, and that's that's the great part is that at our fire pit, people come together there and they make friends, they meet new people, that they and it's very interesting like we've had people come that are from the same block in Brooklyn and they come and meet each other here at the fire pit and they leave as friends wow, and they leave as friends and Wow, that's so nice.
Speaker 1:And they go back to the city and they're friends. So that's the main thing is that you can't just provide a room anymore. It has to be, and as far as the types of experience that we have, we do things that we're not quite in the wellness space fully. But recently we partnered with Wendy Dima and she's an amazing masseuse and licensed massage therapist.
Speaker 2:But you also have the sound bath. Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1:What is that? So a guy his name is John Minx and he comes and he sets up bells and chimes, drums and all sorts of bells and he just kind of plays them. You lay there and you're kind of washed and the reason they call it a bath is because you're washed over by the sound and then it just kind of it builds to a crescendo and then you come out of that and you're in a different space when did you start with the experiences?
Speaker 1:as soon as you bought the place they kind of seeped in right, they just we, one by one, we add I think you kind of have to like stay on top of some trends and see what people are doing in the hospitality space. I would see that, and it's big on Airbnb now too. You can add experiences there as well.
Speaker 2:I read that you want to have no cell phone, no TVs. So, first of all, what do the guests say about it? They come here and there's no cell service. Really.
Speaker 3:There is internet and there is Wi-Fi, so they're not stranded here. They can get on their iPads.
Speaker 1:You know, I think people might actually really like that. You know some people. One of the last places. There's no cell service, that's true, but also no TVs, and I don't think. What I've always said is like you don't come to the Catskills to watch TV, you've got to be outside. We're about nature and getting outside the original owners. They didn't have TVs and we saw no reason to put TVs in the room. We have one TV in the den in our community space, in case you want to.
Speaker 2:Watch the news or whatever.
Speaker 1:No, if you want to watch a movie with friends.
Speaker 2:Would you say it's hard work to run a boutique hotel.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's hard work and you don't know what kind of work it's going to be, because you know, like in March, a pipe breaks over one of the rooms and there's water pouring into one of the rooms, and that's your job for the next? Yes, that's your job for the next week or two to get that taken care of and renovate the one room and it's not always glamorous.
Speaker 2:I know Discovery Plus I think it was that did a show about Grauman Corporation.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Was it when you were the owner or the previous owner?
Speaker 3:It was us. It was us. Yeah, you don't remember me from TV. It was exciting. Yeah, they were up. They were filming up here for about three or four days and they had a couple of b-roll shots and they interviewed us for that long and they interviewed our designer was that like they gave you the big boost.
Speaker 2:Do you think a lot of people learned about you because of that? Not as much as you think it?
Speaker 3:think it's mostly word of mouth, wouldn't you?
Speaker 1:say it is, but it was helpful yeah it was helpful it was definitely helpful, because people came from further away, maybe not have sought us out, and so I'd be here in reception and somebody would be looking at me and I'd be like kind of uncomfortable it's weird to be recognized. Yes, I said oh yeah, well, I didn't want to say anything, but I recognize you from the TV show.
Speaker 2:So when you bought it in 2018, correct 2018. What was your vision for the long term?
Speaker 1:It's funny because the one thing that is essential to our vision, we still haven't completed which is building a new communal space. That's a little bit more winterized, because right now we have the den, which is fine and it's a wonderful space, but it's not really super winterized.
Speaker 2:Do you have special experiences for kids, by the way?
Speaker 3:Well, actually no, but we were contracted with somebody to design a coloring book of the animals that you see around the ground.
Speaker 1:Murav. That's the best thing about doing this job is getting to do special creative projects like that. We work with good friends of ours, camilia and Rene. Camilia has created three Stony Clove products for us and has helped us with the design, and that's very exciting. We work with friends and we get to create our own things.
Speaker 2:That's right, tourism could be at odds with the town. Do you ever run into a problem with the town having a hotel here?
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say a problem. We've had a town meeting where people were concerned about our new building.
Speaker 1:But it's fair, it's a fair concern because we're located in a neighborhood. It's not like we're remote, like Urban Cowboy or something else, they're just remote. We're in a neighborhood, in a town. So sure, it's a fair concern. But I think generally everyone is pretty supportive of us and that's good.
Speaker 2:Cool. I want to get into the design for a second, because it's a beautiful blend of minimalist and rustic. What kind of feeling you would like the people to have or live after they stay in here?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a great question because, like, there's all sorts of places you can stay. There's a place that was up more north from here and the rooms are like, decorated in different themes and but that's not our style, that's not what we wanted. I aspire to live like the rooms are like, decorated in different themes and but that's not our style, that's not what we wanted. I aspire to live like. Our rooms are especially the bungalow. It's minimal, it's got just exactly what you need and you feel clean and when you're in there, you you feel relaxed. It just kind of like, you just kind of exhale.
Speaker 2:It's not cluttered I was just gonna say that, yes, now do you think of doing corporate know, like companies bringing all of their employees or some of their employees?
Speaker 3:Sure, we do have those, you do, we do get those yes.
Speaker 2:Oh that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:But it takes a special kind of company to come here, because we're not super corporate.
Speaker 2:Not corporate at all. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so we've had some quirky companies come and there are a few. And that's really the main reason why we're building the new lodges, because we want to have the infrastructure to host more corporate retreats.
Speaker 2:What kind of skill or character trait does somebody need to have in order to run a boutique hotel like this?
Speaker 3:You're asking good questions. You have to be pretty independent and be able to make.
Speaker 2:You mean financially. Well, that too.
Speaker 3:That doesn't hurt, but you have to be prepared to I don't want to say, be the mean guy, but you have to be prepared to be tough. You have to be tough in business and to say no to some things.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, though, because you have to have somebody, at least one person in the mix who likes people a lot.
Speaker 3:Which one of you is the one that likes me? That would be you, okay.
Speaker 1:And then you have to have somebody who can lay down the law, and we have somebody like that too. That's Natalie, our booking manager, I guess, because from my corporate days in advertising, I'm if the client asks you for something, you want to say yes, and I'm hardwired to say yes. And sometimes it doesn't make sense to say yes or it's against the policy to say yes, and I need somebody that can say no. Is Joe the one that can say no.
Speaker 3:I can say no. I don't say no a lot, but I say no when I need to.
Speaker 1:At some point, somebody does have to like people.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And if somebody wants to start, besides buying the real estate, and how much money does one need to have to actually open? You need marketing, you need maintenance, you need employees.
Speaker 3:Well, we just stepped into into the former owner's shoes.
Speaker 1:The biggest expense is the staff. That's the biggest expense.
Speaker 2:They're all on a payroll, or the freelancers.
Speaker 1:Mostly on payroll Wow so that's expensive. Yes, that's the big expense. Wow. And because we were novices at the beginning, we staffed every shift all the time, year round, and then we realized, well-.
Speaker 2:You don't need it.
Speaker 1:We don't need that so we learned the the ebbs and flows of the business, and now I don't panic after thanksgiving until christmas. You know, I know that there's not going to be anybody here, so again, we did have to have a big loan our first year and the bank gave you the loan yes, it was kind of like a floater loan kind of like. It was kind of like a newbie loan. It was kind of like a newbie loan.
Speaker 2:The bank wasn't concerned with the fact that you never ran a hotel before.
Speaker 1:They were concerned. They were extremely concerned, In fact. That's why it took an entire year to close the loan People don't realize.
Speaker 3:It takes a long time to put together a commercial real estate deal and I had. I did work in real estate but I had never done a deal like this where there's a lot of moving parts to put together.
Speaker 1:They gave us a floater lunch. But then again you learn the business. You learn what it takes to how to cut down. I again, we serve breakfast on the weekends, yes, and I've learned how to buy just enough or just a tiny bit more than we're going to need, because you know we serve three different types of breakfast.
Speaker 2:In the communal room.
Speaker 1:No we actually bring it to the room. No seriously, wow, yes, so they can pick from one of three breakfasts, one of four breakfasts actually.
Speaker 2:Because you supply breakfast and linens and all of that you for breakfast.
Speaker 1:Actually, because you supply breakfast and linens and all of that.
Speaker 2:You have to pay sales tax also, right, oh yeah. And then, since we've owned the hotel, hotel tax, hotel tax has gone up. Yes, two percent right from two percent to four percent. So yeah, so you pay occupancy tax and then sales tax, and then of course federal and stay and all of that, so you work for everybody else basically.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:And what about insurance?
Speaker 3:You must have insurance after Kazo. It's expensive.
Speaker 1:yes, yes and that was outrageously expensive because we're located close in a flood zone.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, but it never got flooded. This property right?
Speaker 1:No, not maybe up to the first door. When we were closing the deal and they said, oh, by the way, you need to get flood insurance. And I was like what? And they said it's going to be $30,000 a year, yes, and we were too far into this to say that's too much. So we were in it for that much the first year.
Speaker 2:Wow, it's since come down, but also you saw that there were no floods. Are you still gonna keep the flood insurance?
Speaker 3:Well, I think you can drop it.
Speaker 2:It's because the bank insists on it. Ah yes, they're all in cahoots.
Speaker 1:It's disgusting, yeah.
Speaker 2:What would you say is the biggest misconception about owning a boutique hotel?
Speaker 1:That it's all glamorous.
Speaker 3:Not that it's fun. It is fun, but it's a different kind of fun right.
Speaker 2:Did you make friends with any of them? Oh sure yeah.
Speaker 3:I have to say some of the guests are really fantastic, Really nice people.
Speaker 1:I have to say 98% of our guests are fantastic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're really fabulous people. I have to say, 98% of our guests are fantastic. Yeah, they're really fabulous people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they leave you good reviews.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they do that too, we're very lucky.
Speaker 1:I mean, just like once or twice a year, we have somebody that's problematic, which is next to nothing, and then we have people that come back every year and that's kind of gratifying too, because we see the same people every year. We have one group that comes every christmas and they spend new year's here. That's fantastic, yeah, it is yeah, and they really love this place and for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:This is their happy place, so that's the big reward that is the reward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is the? Biggest challenge not having a regular schedule. Like it we're just, especially during the summer, like when you get on in May and you go through the end of August. It's every day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is a grind. I'm always telling Martin he needs to take some time off not a lot of time off, but you need a mental break from the business, right?
Speaker 1:You know that's the hard part. The end of August comes around. I'm exhausted.
Speaker 2:I thought that you would say the biggest challenge is the maintenance, the constant maintenance, but you just take this as part of your job, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just have to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is part of the job. It is a huge challenge no question I'm going to say this is going to sound arrogant. We only have to pay for it.
Speaker 1:No, that's what it is. I can't actually do anything. I mean, you learn things. Oh, like the first time I patched a hole in the wall, like just empty hole in the wall I was so happy with myself.
Speaker 3:He did a very passable job. Why did you?
Speaker 2:look on YouTube how to do it.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's amazing the things that you can learn on YouTube.
Speaker 2:I met a woman that her abusive husband left her with the three boys, took the house. Whatever she looked on YouTube, she built a house with her three boys from YouTube, really, oh my God. And they're going to make a movie about her with Nicole Kidman, oh wow. So do you have one incident or one guest that stuck with you more than anybody else?
Speaker 1:I don't have a particular guest, but one thing that I really love to see is when kids come here, especially young, like teenagers or or like that, and they're very jaded and they're city kids, right, and they come here and they've got, they're frowning and they're just looking at their phone and you know, and they're just like what is this place?
Speaker 3:you know?
Speaker 1:and then slowly over the weekend they start losing that facade and then they just become kids again and they leave here just like kids and happy. When I get to see that with anybody like they come here in a mood or they've got their armor up, and then you know we can provide them a great experience. And then they leave and they're relaxed and they're happy. There could be nothing more gratifying than that.
Speaker 2:What is your dream for the hotels in the future, in the next five, ten years?
Speaker 3:well, to get the building built, that would be, and to get our liquor license, that would be.
Speaker 2:That's a big deal oh, you're trying to get a liquor license. Yeah, we'll try to get the liquor license.
Speaker 3:That would be good. You need it. You need to have hot food available 20 well, all day and all night.
Speaker 2:If you have liquor license.
Speaker 3:I think so. I think you have to have hot food available at all times during your working hours, I think.
Speaker 1:That's the thing that's preventing us from having a liquor license. You have to serve hot food. Certain people just get away with it by sticking a hot dog in the back somewhere.
Speaker 2:Or a small pizza oven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can try that, but again, I didn't want to do it half-assed If this isn't the level of boutique hotel that we are talking about. We want to do it right and we want to have a really nice cafe that can serve something special.
Speaker 2:All right, then, on that note, thank you so much. Thank you, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having us. Did you say anything interesting?
Speaker 2:You said a lot of interesting things Okay. All right, thank you. That's a wrap for today. If you have a comment or question or would like us to cover a certain job, please let us know. Visit our website at howmuchcanimakeinfo. We would love to hear from you. And, on your way out, don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with anyone who is curious about their next job. See you next time.
